Sunday, August 5, 2012

Yep. Here we go again...

EAT MOR CHIKIN...NOT!
I've come to realize that I question how many people actually understand the true definition of prejudice and discrimination. Through repeated exposure to images and ideas of discrimination, have we become desensitized to what it actually is? I realized that of all the people I've ever known in my life, I've known very few who were overtly prejudiced or discriminated against in any way. Chick-fil-A chief executive Dan Cathy's recent Christian-based anti-gay comments at first pissed me off in a there-they-go-again kind of way. The resultant furor over his comments encouraged me at first. Yay! This is pissing a lot of people off! And then I was appalled at the support he, and the restaurant chain, have received. Appalled and plain old disappointed. I'm disappointed in how narrow-minded and intolerant so many people in this country still remain. People seem to cling to ignorance (and stupidity) with a fierce determination that, to me, lacks explanation.

I discovered that many people I liked and respected are, in fact, hate-mongers with as little tolerance, compassion and sense as Nazi Germany at the height of its power and influence. Perhaps I've indulged in a little self-delusion because the reactions I've seen, on Facebook for example, took me a bit by surprise. The comments people have made made me think that they really have no idea what it's like to be discriminated against, or been a victim of bigotry or prejudice. I wondered how honest, God-fearing Christians could think it was okay to jail somebody because of their sexual preference? Granted, the Catholics had their Spanish Inquisition, and the Nazis had the Final Solution, Americans had slavery because blacks were inferior, women weren't allowed to vote; and hell, everyone was dumped on in this country during the Industrial Revolution. So, yeah, there's a history of egregious wrong-doing that was eventually righted. The Catholics got screwed in the U.S. right up until the 60s, and then a bunch of sick priests further sullied their reputation. Hitler lost, the slaves were freed, and women can vote. And Italians, Jews, Russians, Albanians and the Irish continue to fight amongst themselves (but they all seem to balance one another out in a sort circle-of-life thing).

So how is it, in this day and age, that we still haven't learned tolerance? How is it that so many seem to have forgotten the past and have no foresight toward the future? People continue to foist their twisted belief systems on others and hide under the white hood of free speech and the First Amendment. The First Amendment doesn't absolve you from having to think about what you say. Having the right to espouse bigotry doesn't make it right. And having the right to say whatever you want isn't the same as having the right to take action. When are people going to learn to be as respectful of other people's beliefs as they would have them be of theirs? When I read about either the gleefully ignorant ("Go Chick-fil-A!"), or the ignorantly apathetic ("I don't agree with their views, but I like their food. Go Chick-fil-A!"), I wanted to puke. It made me realize it's a lot cooler to be known as an American than to actually be one.

I don't think a lot of these people even know what the hell they're supporting. They're just jumping on the bandwagon like good little sheep and not even thinking about the actual, real-world ramifications of the words and actions that they're supporting. They're thinking of actual, flesh'n'blood human beings that their actions are affecting in a strictly abstract, academic sense. "These are other people who deserve what's comin' to them. But I don't know any of them."

History will demonstrate, as it has time and again, that the put upon and downtrodden will prevail and that their persecutors will be seen as the ignorant, provincial thugs that they are.

If all the groups that have been targeted for hate in our nation's history received the sanctions their persecutors sought, there wouldn't be anybody left.

27 comments:

  1. Steve - I love you and respect your opinion...but the whole support was not about being homosexual or not. It was not about serving or employing homosexuals or not; all of which Chick-Fil-A does! And yes, I do know first hand as my son works at Chick-Fil-A. The support was about two mayors that felt the need to speak out publically and forbid the upper management of Chick-Fil-A to open any more restaurants in their cities and restrict Chick-Fil-A's revenue generation capabilities because of the Mr. Cathy's speech/opinion. Should Mr. Cathy probably have kept his opinion to himself, yes, but when asked a direct question, he answered on a Christian radio station. He also did not say that he "Hates or dislikes gays or lesbians." It is not that he is intolerant, it is that he is disagreeing with a sin. To some, this might not be a big issue, but think about how you would feel if someone restricted Christy because of something she wrote. I know seems ridiculious, but at one time, we did work for CompUSA. Not totally out of the realm of possibility, I mean they let me do some of the writing. ;-)

    Secondly, please do not place all Christians in the same boat! That is like painting all gay and lesbians with the same brush. I am a Christian and we are told in the Bible to love all people, regardless of their sins! I in fact have several friends that are gay. They do know my stance and we respect each other. No one sin is greater than another. For example, were I to lie and say I agree with your position, that would be a sin. THE WAGES OF SIN ARE DEATH! Does not matter how big or little. Jesus died for my sins so that I do not have to and can live in Heaven with Him and His Father when I leave this earth.

    Thirdly, I do not flaunt my sexuality. This is a private choice that should be kept private. Basically, I would like to be the one to teach my child about sex without answering questions about why that man is kissing that other man. These are just my thoughts.

    Love and miss ya', dude!

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    1. @Paula Pike, would you feel the same if two mayors stood up and said they didn't want a company coming to their city because the company contributed a portion of their profits to organizations that publicly stated that criminal sanctions against blacks or Jews should be enforced simply because they are the way they are?

      Chick-Fil-A financially supports Family Research Council, and FRC has stated that "criminal sanctions against homosexual behavior" should be enforced. To me, that's promoting hatred against an entire group of people. I commend the mayors for standing up and saying no.

      I'm a Christian who actively goes to church, worships, studies the Bible, and spends time with other Christians. I'm also a person who believes that every human deserves the same rights. Why should I be able to marry my boyfriend, but my best friend Drew can't marry his? That isn't right. Why can I have medical benefits once I get married, but Drew will never have them by marry his boyfriend Scott, who has excellent benefits. It's not fair.

      I have one important question for all the Christians out there who oppose equal rights for gays and lesbians. Why do you care if they have the same rights as you? I'd like to hear from some of you. But before you answer, think about this long and hard - YOU AREN'T GOD. You aren't here to judge. Now answer.

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    2. @Paula: I waited too long to reply so @Kirani Cole ended up saying pretty much everything I would've!

      Aside from the KKK or any other overtly hateful group, I really have no qualms with freedom of speech and the First Amendment, in spite of whether or not I agree with their rhetoric. So my problem truly isn't with what Cathy said. It was the action he's taken to support his beliefs. I think it's wrong to funnel money that wants to make certain basic human rights illegal for some to enjoy. If his opinion is that LGBT shouldn't be allowed to do certain things, he doesn't have the right to try to get it passed into law. It makes him, and others like him, sound frightened or scared of...something.

      I've never been able to put my finger on exactly what anti-gay activists find so threatening to them personally about someone elses alternative lifestyle.

      And I still love and miss you too!! ;-)

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  2. Actually, the real issue isn't what Cathy *said* - it's what he does with Chick-fil-A money. Donations have been made to the Family Research Council, which wants same-gender relationships to be criminalized. Criminalized. Remember when interracial relationships were a criminal offense in some parts of the country?

    Jesus never said a thing about homosexuality. I don't know why "Christians" keep putting words in his mouth. Of course they all point to the Old Testament, but how many of those Bible-thumpers eat bacon. Yeah, I thought so.

    This issue really pisses me off. I was raised to believe that Jesus Christ is the son of God and my Savior, but honestly, I don't want to have anything to do with people who identify as "Christian" because too many of them are just straight-up hate-mongers.

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    1. I do agree that people speak with their money...that is why I supported Chick-Fil-A and will always land on the side of protecting 1st Amendment rights.

      While Jesus did not directly say homosexuality is wrong, his spokesmen Paul and Timothy did in 1 Cor 6:9 and in 1 Tim 1:9.

      I also do not hate any group of people, but am a Christian. Maybe you are associating with the wrong "Christians". Just my thoughts.

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    2. @Paula: So flat out: Do you support Dan Cathy's funding of groups like Family Research Council, which has gone on the record in support of making homosexual behavior illegal and a jailable offense? (I'm thinking "jailable" isn't actually a word, but just go with me on it.)

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  3. Dan Cathy of Chick-Fil-A (CFA) answered a question posed to him by a religious group that he believes in the biblical definition of a traditional family and does not support same sex marriage. As far as I've read thus far, CFA does not discriminate against gays in it's employment practices or it's treatment of gay customers. This is his personal opinion. If the Chairman of Hyundai routinely promoted the eating of kagogi (dog meat), and was on the Board of Kagogi Ltd. and Americans found this appalling-do we boycott Hyundai cars? Should we be condemning a company based on the individual beliefs of it's hierarchy? I have no idea what the CEO's of McDonalds, BurgerKing, Target etc. believe or practice. I guess I should be researching every corporate structure to be sure that each and every person who holds a position in that company believes what I believe before I buy it's product(s).

    Please do not misconstrue my statement as being supportive of his opinion-but it's irrelevant to CFA as a company as long as it is following the law and not discriminating. I do believe in it's prerogative to donate monies to charities or organizations that support it's corporate mission, which is partly to promote the traditional family structure. (Yes traditional families need a lot of support too.)

    This is a debate of whether one believes in the Christian principles of traditional family or not. I don't see these people as ignorant, provincial thugs but people with/a deeply held belief system that is based on religious teachings (not stupidity) and in direct opposition to homosexuality. This is just the beginnings of a very complex, societal issue that we all are trying to suss out.

    Didn't Obama, only very recently have a change of heart about same sex marriage? Was he ignorant and stupid for 50 years but now, bless his election day heart, enlightened?

    Lastly, I really have a BIG problem w/the secular state labeling anything religious as hate speech. Just b/c one has an opposing opinion does not mean it's based in hate.

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    1. @Anonymous: Whether or not Cathy's comments were "hate" speech or not, the bigger issues seems to be his desire to subjugate homosexuals and his efforts to curtail their human rights. It's one thing to hate my Jewish neighbor. It's another thing entirely for me to take action to get him jailed because he's Jewish.

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  4. I find it profoundly interesting how my fellow Christians pick and choose which bits of the Bible are considered to still be sins, and which bits are ignored, considered barbaric, or dismissed. We no longer stone people, require brothers to marry their wives, restrict certain foods, cut off hands, enslave people (in most parts of the world), etc. So why continue to hold on so tightly to the notion that God considers homosexuality a sin? Has anyone spoken to Him directly lately? No? Alright then.

    Dan Cathy and his company financially support organizations that are blatantly against gays and lesbians. They give money to organizations that would see gays and lesbians jailed. Does that sound Christian to anyone? The fact that the two mayors stood up and said it's not OK for this company to come here and make more money for this outlandish idea is great! They should look out for the people of their city. By doing so, they brought to light what kind of organizations Chick-fil-A supports. Now the rest of us can make up our minds whether or not we want our money to go towards Mr. Cathy's charities. I don't.

    When Christians say they want to jail a group simply because because of who they love - yes, this is hate. When Christians say they don't think a group of people should have the same rights as everyone else because they're different - yes, this is hate.

    You can be a Christian and still be part of a hate group. And believe me, if you're wanting to restrict the rights of other humans, you are a proud member of a hate group. You're no different than the racists of the 1950s and 60s. Seriously, take a look a look at what you're spouting off. It's the same rhetoric, just against a different group.

    I'm ashamed of a lot of my fellow Christians; however, there remain enough that don't feel as Mr. Cathy do for me to still have faith in my religion. We love and embrace gays and lesbians, and we want to see them gain the rights that they deserve - the same rights we all have.

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    1. @Armand: I've always found it more than a little frustrating when Christians – or any group that follows a dogma – picks and chooses which parts of their dogma to follow. They seem to pick the bits and pieces that are convenient at the time to support their personal biases. Human nature I guess, but it still smacks of major hypocrisy to me.

      Along the lines of what you wrote, @Christy shared a video with me that I'm going to try to share here. This young woman says a lot of what I'm too ignorant of the Bible to articulate. She's also kinda funny. If you've got about 5 minutes, give it a watch. And thanks for stopping by!

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JprRWKQys7A&feature=share

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  5. I think the point that MOST people are missing is that Chick-Fil-A gives money to companies that want to "pray the gay" out of people and jail them for their "sin". If Dan Cathy had just stated his personal opinion, that's fine. He's allowed to do that. We're all allowed to do that unless we're threatening someone. But what happened as a result of him expressing his personal opinion is that it was revealed that he and money from his company support companies that are extremist. If I found out that a company was giving some of their profits to a white supremacist group, we'd ALL be up in arms about it. Well in my opinion, a group that wants to put gays and lesbians in jail or "pray the gay" out of them is no different.

    That's what people are missing. It IS NOT about free speech.

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    1. @Gloria: Hear, hear! Thanks for sharing, and thanks for stopping by and commenting. :)

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  6. There's a photo that's been going around on Google+ that's from the 1960's. It shows a black teen girl walking with books held close to her chest, surrounded by white women shouting ugliness at her. You can tell what they're shouting is ugly by the expressions on their faces. The caption on the photo says, replace "black" with "gay" and "white" with "Christian". It's sad, but it's true.

    I was raised in a Methodist church and taught to love all people. I believe in God and Jesus, and have given my life to Jesus. But nowadays it's really hard to call myself a Christian because I don't agree with all the mean things being said about gays. I believe God loves them as much as me. I believe they deserve the same rights that I have. I'm no better than they are. I'm no different than they are.

    Yes, you can point to passages in the Bible that say it's a sin to have sex with someone who is the same sex, but you can also point to passages that say other things are sins too that we do every day without even thinking twice. Are we going to start throwing rocks at people again?

    And whatever happened to separation of church and state? Why are we letting the Bible rule our government? That's not how it's supposed to be. I don't care that the Bible says it's a sin. That's for God to sort out. Our government is supposed to be separate. If they aren't hurting anyone and giving them the right to marry would be just giving them the same rights as everyone else, why aren't we just doing that?

    I don't get it.

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    1. @Sarah: Hey stranger!!! Nice to see you. ;-)

      Y'know, I hadn't even thought about all the other sins that are mentioned in the Bible that people do every day. The Bible is chock-a-block with Do's and Don't's, and we Do and Don't them all the time. But, for the most part, people aren't donating millions of dollars to have us jailed for doing them.

      I just don't understand what fundamentalist Christians are so up in arms about. How, in any way, does a gay couple getting married affect me? How does a gay partner being allowed hospital visitation adversely affect me? And how can all these "good Christians" forget how Blacks and Jews and all the other groups of people in human history have been wrongly subjugated? Was the civil rights movement in this country so long ago that they've forgotten what civil rights even are? Have they forgotten how their brethren were fed to the lions? Okay, enough rhetorical questions.

      You made some really good points, @Sarah. Thanks for sharing them here.

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    2. Thanks @Steven! I like this topic. I'd like to hear more from the people against gay marriage. I want to know why. I just really do.

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    3. @Sarah: I'm with you! I like topics like this and it would be interesting to hear first-hand from some people that don't agree with me/us.

      Any takers...?

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  7. I don't think about companies giving money to other companies or charities, even though I know they do. I guess if we had a Chick-fil-a here I'd think about it before I'd eat there, but we don't.

    I don't think about gay rights much either because I don't know anybody who is openly gay. If I did, I wouldn't care whether they were or not. Who they love is no concern to me. Live and let live I say.

    Now I'm being serious here. Maybe one of these Christians who is all up in arms about the gays having the right to get married could explain to me in simple terms why it's any different than allowing blacks to attend white schools or sit anywhere they want on a bus or in a cafe. It seems to me that it's all the same. Equal rights are equal rights. If you can do it, then they should be able to do it too. Am I wrong? Tell me why.

    I'm a simple man. Life doesn't get real complicated with me. This seems to be a simple issue of people not liking a group because they're different. Same story that's been being told from the beginning of time.

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    1. @Grey Goose: Good to see you, my friend!

      I wish someone firmly on Dan Cathy and Chick-fil-A's side of the fence would chime in here and answer your questions. You posed your thoughts plainly and clearly. My hat's off to you.

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  8. I wish we could like comments too. I'd like some of them on here.

    Good post.

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    1. @PooBear: In a way, you just did "Like". ;-)

      Thanks for the compliment and thank you very much for stopping by.

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  9. Have you read this @Steven64? Quite a good read and goes along with what you wrote.

    http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/science/2012/08/chick_fil_a_controversy_why_dan_cathy_s_statements_are_dangerous_.html

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    1. @Jonesy: Talk about "prideful and arrogant". Dan Cathy's the chilling epitome of both. That was really, really good article. I appreciate you taking the time to share it with me. I'm going to post an excerpt from the end of it below.

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  10. Jonesy (above) posted a link to an article by Jesse Bering on Slate that I just read. It's somewhat lengthy and given that it's been over a week since all this Chick-fil-a stuff really hit the fan, I imagine interest is waning so I don't expect everyone to jump on over and read the whole thing. (It's very good though.)

    But I wanted to post an abridged excerpt from the article that really struck me:

    "…Every single body on proud display at the “Chick-fil-A Appreciation Day,” not to mention those leaning out of their car windows to scream “faggots!” and “dykes!” at gay couples (was) a tangible reminder of just how much they really do have to fear in this country. (From) the unspoken perspective of all the petrified, closeted 15-year-olds out there, it makes absolutely no difference, none whatsoever, what your motives are in rallying behind Chick-fil-A. All they see is your raw hate."

    Thank you everybody who stopped by to share your thoughts, compatriots and dissenters alike. You people and this whole issue is one of the reasons I like having a blog.

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  11. I disagree with you.

    Leviticus 18:22 Do not have sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman; that is detestable.

    Leviticus 20:13 If a man has sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They are to be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.

    Romans 1:27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.

    Romans 1:32 Although they know God’s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.

    God didn't create us to be with persons of the same sex. It just isn't right.

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    1. Huh. So Arnie. Can you tell me more about why you disagree. I mean I get that you're into the whole Bible thing and all, but why does gays and lesbians having CIVIL rights have anything to do with YOU? CIVIL and CHURCH are 2 different things.

      I really do want to know.

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    2. @Arnie: Thank you for your comments! As divisive as this issue is, I'm surprised more people haven't posted comments in favor of Cathy's actions. So I appreciate you speaking up.

      I'm curious what your response to @Sarah is. Please feel free to continue speaking your mind.

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  12. Hey @Steven. We haven't heard from your lady on this. Where does she stand?

    Where are you @Christy? We miss you on here! :)

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